Wednesday, July 7, 2010

HST Can`t Save Mill......What were you saying Pat Bell?

A direct quote below from the Conference board of Canada(November 2009)

British Columbia’s economy is expected to decline by two per cent in 2009, but a recovery is expected to begin in the second half of the year. Real gross domestic product (GDP) is forecast to grow by 4.2 per cent in 2010, due to a comeback in the construction sector, recoveries in forestry and manufacturing, and hosting the Winter Olympic Games.

I wonder if Pat Bell and the conference board of Canada missed this story here

Because .........It never amazes me, the Conference board of Canada was talking up B.C. in their forecast, you see what they say above....I can tell you for fact they can`t give rooms away at Whistler......May and June have been brutal for housing sales, but the part that bugs me, they talk about a recovery in forestry, well guess what ? Elk falls is closing, hundreds of jobs caput, finished, Catalyst claims because of high taxes, high labour costs, and low commodity prices they can`t run the mill......So today, the first day of BC Taxpayer dollar funded HST ads on all the radio and TV stations

And what Catalyst is saying is true, because of Canadian taxes and Canadian wages they can`t compete with slave labour from China,.......B.C> mills that have closed in recent years haven`t really closed, whenever a BC Mill closes an Asian mill opens to replace it, Catalyst doesn`t care about B.C. workers and community,
All that is true, but so is something else, this mill and operation is being wooed to re-open in China, a promise of low taxes and dirt cheap labour! That`s right folks, for every mill closing in B.C. one or more mill is opening in China....Can you say raw logs going to China, Raw logs and cheap Cants being shipped to China where they are milled and sent back, by milling raw BC logs and cants give the Chinese a supply of pulp!

So much for the recovery, big business cares about profit, BC towns could lower the tax rate in half, the workers could cut their wages in half and still we couldn`t compete with the slave labour traders! Today there is a big problem in China with labour, the peasents have had a taste of money, they like it, slowly there has been "wage creep" in China, the big manufacturers are in a race to automate their factories, robotics, pnematics, completely computerized robotic factories, these corporate goons will look for any edge they can get to cut costs........A lot of companies in China and companies thinking about setting up manufacturing in China are now thinking about Vietnam....In many industries cheap labour will be cheaper than robotics, man is flexible, but can you imagine, the corporate elite will move from $5 dollar a day labour and relocate to $1 dollar a day country in Veitnam.

And how ironic, the day Colin Hansen and Gordon Campbell start spending our tax dollars trying to explain to us dumbasses who don`t understand the tax.....The hypocrisy, how many times has Colin Hansen,Gordon Campbell and Pat Bell said that the HST will save forestry jobs? Too many times too count! Oh indeed..."A boon to forestry"

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Of course we here at the Straight Goods have written many times how lumber prices, pulp prices fluctuate by hundreds of dollars year over year, the HST means nothing to Catalyst, that`s why they are closing up Elk Falls and moving operations to China, cheaper taxes and pitiful wages and human rights. read about China automating their factories and companies looking to Veitnam here.

And I have been watching Australia very closely, BHP and Rio Tinto(Alcan) have launched a $100 million dollar ad campaign against the Australian Government, they have caused one Prime minister to resign, now the replacement is being lambasted by the big mining outfits, Rio Tinto is demanding more capital write-offs and a slashing of a new proposed super profits tax, look folks in Australia the miners have essentially over thrown the Government , a classic coup....this new tax proposed by Australia on mining is only on high profit returns, think about it, Rio Tinto and BHP will still make a fortune, they just don`t want to pay their share, we are not talking high tech, Australia owns the resource, all Rio Tinto and BHP have to do is extract it!......Nothing but greed.Read about the big miners who have taken control of Australia here

What about the HST, how can Catalyst shut down and relocate in China or Veitnam.....Wasn`t the HST supposed to save forestry jobs?

Perhaps Colin Hansen can fly into Elks Fall and explain to all the unemployed mill workers how the HST saved their jobs and improved the economy!

There is another story which makes no sense, the evergreen line, according to Gordon Campbell construction of the Evergreen transit line in Port moody/Coquitlam is on schedule, how can he say it`s on time when they are now saying they will announce who the winning bidder is in the summer of 2011....With completion by 2014....Only a Habitual lying Gordon Campbell would claim it`s on schedule, it was supposed to start in 2002...2003..2004..2006..2007..2009...2010.....But it`s on time....But what I don`t understand, does anyone still believe that Gordon Campbell has $400 million dollars, Harper has $400 million dollars and Translink has almost $400 million dollars and as soon as Translink finds the remaing $300 million they will start building it!!!!....Read about the Nevergreen line here

What bullshit, I mean really, Gordon Campbell went $500 million over budget on the convention center, $1 billion over budget on the Canada line, $400 million over budget on the Golden ears bridge, building a new bigger Port Mann bridge that we don`t need the Campbell Goverment came up with over $2 billion dollars overnight when the MacQuarie group couldn`t raise a dime for the project, so explain why .....

$1.2 billion dollars are just sitting for the Evergreen line.... There waiting for the last dime, how much interest is gathering, how much are we losing to inflation, how much is the new price for the evergreen line when you add in all the HST tax?...Labour,Concrete, Steel, services, every bit of that job is HST able.......So tell me what the new price of the Evergreen line is...or tell me how much the price is going down because of the HST....Personally speaking, the evergreen money has long since been plundered by both levels of Government, or someone show me the money and the interest it`s collecting!

The Straight Goods

Cheers-Eyes Wide Open


Anonymous said...

"...Personally speaking, the evergreen money has long since been plundered by both levels of Government, or someone show me the money and the interest it`s collecting!"

BINGO!!...but please don't hold your breath while waiting for the answer.

Crankypants said...

In the last month we have had Shirley Bond, Ian Black and Gordon Campbell state that the Evergreen Line will be completed on schedule. Today Bill Good had some dude on his show spouting the BC Liberal party line. I didn't get his name, but he is responsible for making this project become a reality. When Good asked him about the shortfall of close to $600 million dollars because Translink is broke, he babbled some gibberish which made no sense whatsoever. They are looking for a private company that will not only build the Evergreen Line, but will have the wherewithall to finance it to the point of completion. The way I see it, this magical company/consortium will be financing the projected $1.4 billion, and will only be paid once the line is up and running. When Good asked him if the $800 million promised by the provincial government and the feds would be paid up front, this guy skirted the question going back to the payment to the builder once the line is up and running. To make a long story short, this series of announcements is nothing more than Campbell and friends trying to appease the electorate in the Tri-cities and deflect from the HST debacle.

I happen to live in Coquitlam and have been following the Evergreen Line very closely and totally befuddled. The provincial government insists that the project will go ahead but doesn't explain how Translink will pay its share. They basically went cap in hand to get the mayor's council to approve a $130 million increase in funding just to keep the areas Translink responsible for operating. And this barebones increase will invoke cutbacks in service as it is. Seeing as we are coming up to municipal elections next year, how does the government expect Translink to coerce them to okay another $400 million infusion of cash through property taxes and gasoline tax increases. We are already paying $.15/litre in gas tax which goes to Translink. Our property taxes are rising by 2-3 times inflation as it is. Things just don't add up.

Another interesting thing that I gleaned from this Translink spokesman is the statement he made about the ridership of Skytrain, the Millenium Line and the Canada Line. He stated that the ridership is now about 350,000 people per day. Considering that Skytrain dates back to 1985 or 1986 and the other lines much more recent, one must ask how much has the population of Metro Vancouver increased in this time frame? Without trying to ferret out this info, I would assume it is much greater than this figure. So, my question is, how do the rest of the people that have moved into Metro Vancouver commute? It's all fine and dandy to quote massive numbers of rapid transit users, but if the transit use is not keeping up with the population growth, is it accomplishing what it was intended to accomplish, or is it nothing more than a monument to the government of the day? Not from where I sit.

Crankypants said...

I forgot to comment on the first part of your posting. None of these big corporations give a tinker's damn about the community in which they operate. It is all about dollars and cents. They play one community or jurisdiction against the other in the name of profit.

What I really think people must pay attention to is how commerce has changed. These companies have come to realize that it is more advantagious to take something from the land of origin, transport it thousands of miles to be refined then to be returned as a finished product and still make a profit. Transporting goods back and forth is not cheap, but labour in countries that exploit their citizens is.

What we really need to do is quit buying the crap imported from these countries that use their citizens as nothing more than slaves. The Walmart syndrome must end.

Gary E said...

Never fear crankypants. This household does not and never will shop at the Anti-union WalMart.

And you are bang on about these fools playing one community or jurisdiction against the other in the name of profit. It's all about the money.

Anonymous said...

I see Northstar Lumber went down forever last week as well.. thanks for all your diligence and hard work and the great posts Grant trying to expose these crooks for what they are

cherylb said...

What we need to do is stop the flow of raw logs and cheap cants out of the country. Anyone working in the industry could see this coming from a million miles away. Another casualty of the Campbell government.

cherylb said...

Sorry for the double post. First time I tried to post it said "error, unable to post".

Anonymous said...

It seems, big brother (CSIS), has it's eye on BC. There, is too much foreign influence in BC. China and the USA. Unfortunately, this has upset the Chinese Canadians. My thoughts never went to those people. However, my very first thought was, Gordon Campbell. He is selling out BC to China and the USA. Our mills were sent to China, our raw logs went to China. Campbell caused the loss, of 30.000 mill jobs. Campbell, Hansen and the BC Liberals, are fighting hard, to bring dirty oil tankers from China, into our pristine coast inlet. Horrors of all, Campbell, and His Liberals, want to drill off shore for, oil and gas wells. The oil company that will be drilling, is none other than, BP from the Gulf spill. That oil will go to China. The USA, is getting our clean drinking water, and much of our assets and natural resources. Campbell is destroying, the most valuable farmland in Canada. He is flooding the beautiful Peace country, for site C dam. Arnold S. from California, is running out of hydro. What kind of a fool. floods prime farmland. BP, is also, working on a coal methane bed, near Sparwood BC. Seems no-one knew about this, until 2 weeks after they started. Something stinks, and it isn't methane. Campbell is a dictator, who is rabid for money. He has BC in debt for billions. He is fighting, tooth and nail, to stay in office. He is frantic to pay off some of the debt, before the citizens find out, and lynches him. I hope, the CSIS will kick Campbell and his henchmen, right off the planet.

Anonymous said...

In a nutshell, BC and Canada has been plundered by foreign capitalists with the helping hand of our Liberal and Harper governments.

It's all about greed, globalization and wealth for a few.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
kootcoot said...

"Campbell is a dictator, who is rabid for money. He has BC in debt for billions. He is fighting, tooth and nail, to stay in office"

I too want Campbell to stay in office, right up until the moment he is perp-walked in cuffs out of office to his new (well funky old) cell!

Leah said...

Anon 10:40, I think Mr. Fadden was sending a shot across a bow to let certain people (they know who they are) know they're being watched, and he is doing it he should.

I have NO doubt that Campbell or his cronies may well be among those on Fadden's radar, for good reason. Which is why I was so surprised by Jenny Kwan's attack on Fadden! Who is Jenny serving with that attitude?

Anonymous said...

Kootcoot - Vaughn Palmer today:

The public accounts pegged the provincial debt at $42 billion as of March 31, $8 billion higher than when the B.C. Liberals took office.

By way of comparison, the New Democrats doubled the debt during their decade in power. And as that shy fellow Bill Vander Zalm reminded me the other day, the debt was the same when he assumed the premier's office ($17 billion) as when he resigned from it.

Read more:

Do you think this is correct or just PAB stuff, I thought the debt under Gordo was like 100 billion, but good old Vaughn makes them sound like they have done such a good job, and note the jab at the NDP (of course, isn't that his MO?)

Anonymous said...

Leah said... July 9, 2010 11:17 AM

I have NO doubt that Campbell or his cronies may well be among those on Fadden's radar, for good reason. Which is why I was so surprised by Jenny Kwan's attack on Fadden! Who is Jenny serving with that attitude?
Have you ever consider the possibility that, the BC Liberals and BC NDP may somehow be interconnected at the hip?
The more it goes ,the more these two parties appear very comfortable with one another..
Henri Paul

Grant G said...

Forget the spin from Palmer...He`s a stooge...That debt rise to over $55 billion by 2012...BC Hydro debt...BC fERRY debt is off the books, so are the power purchase agreements.

And....Where is the $1 billion for BC Rail...Where is the $600 million BC Ferry`s was sold for?

Don`t forget...The NDP didn`t have billions in P3s...

Port Mann bridge..Sea to Sky...Abbotsford hospital..Etc etc etc....Oir credit card is full...And don`t forget, Gordon Campbell also scooped $760 million from ICBC!!!!

And....What was interest rates in the 90s?....

And how much interest are Governments paying today?

Maybe %1 percent.....Interest was 10% plus in the 80s....And about 5% for government in the 90s.

Leah said...

Agreed Grant - there is a HUGE amount of debt not even showing on the books as you say...but how do we get those facts out to the masses?

Campbell and his media are now taking the gloves off to get their message out - even when it's nothing more than bald-faced lies. How did we ever fall so far in BC?

Leah said...

"...Have you ever consider the possibility that, the BC Liberals and BC NDP may somehow be interconnected at the hip?"

Yes Henri, I've more than considered it...and after being a long-time NDP supporter, I've had to pull away because of what I See. Not what I think - but what I actually see. One is as bad as the other, and enables their rotten a lousy parent gone wrong.

Anonymous said...

Leah Im of the same mindset as you.
What do you suggest that we do to resolve this situation.
In my riding the MLA and MP are NDP,even though I voted for them both in previous elections, it's unlikely to happen in the next election, and most definitely no Liberals either provincial or federal.
Henri Paul

kootcoot said...

Anon @ 12:17 - Who actually takes anything Vaughn Palmer, Gordon Campbell's PR stooge writes seriously? - I wasn't referring to the phoney budget figures that he is touting. (Also I don't accept your doubling of the debt for the NDP time in power - that's kinda funny with balanced budgets, wouldn't you think?) I could send you a subscription to Watchtower AND the National Enquirer, tho the latter probably has more facts than Vaughn Palmer has ever spouted.

The Billions I'm talking about and you can spin them anyway you want and say they aren't BC debt, but WE the citizens and rate payers will be picking up the tab for the 70 Billion dollars or so (so far) of IPP contracts for power that will be sold by necessity at a loss. (purchase at 12.6 cents per KWH and sell for about .5 per KWH on the Columbia grid a couple weeks ago.

The bail outs for so called private BC Ferries, not to mention the public debt assumed there. Then there is the subsidized debt for GIVING BC Rail away.

I haven't even started to mention the various P3's that will be money machines for friends of government but financial drains on the rest of us.

How can you trust anything Colin Hansen sez or that Vaughn Palmer echoes? According to Colin who insisted for years that the Owelympics would only be $600,000,000 even he now admits to just under 1 Billion. But everybody knows that security alone was 1 Billion and Colin's figures don't include the Athlete's Village, the Convention Centre (over budget so much it makes the Fast Ferries look free), the Sea to Die Hwy, the RAV Line and sooooo much more.

Just stay there in the basement of the Ledge monitoring real people and don't show your face, people's anger is just warming up now!

Anonymous said...

Grant - I don't get all of this debt stuff.
Vander Zalm says the debt was the same when he assumed the premier's office at $17 billion as when he resigned from it.

Then the NDP takes over with a $17 billion debt and when the NDP leaves office 10 years later in 2001 the debt is $34 billion. Isn't that a doubling of the debt?

And when the LIEberals take over the debt is $34 billion and today, 10 years later, the debt is $42 billion. Shouldn't the debt be $68 billion for the LIEberals to double it in the same time frame?

Are the LIEberals cooking the books aided by the PAB/MSM media stooge spin?

The problem is that everyone reads that Vonny Palmer crap and believes it. How do we overcome these media stooges preaching to the masses to get out the truth?

jaydee said...

Leah, Henri, I agree there is something really wrong with the NDP, the 'worst opposition in the history of B.C.'. In the late BS news on CTV James had her big chance at some media attention to respond to BCL's huge (understated) cost of His games and she responded by first gushing about how wonderful the games were and then some dumb-ass comment about the costs. After too many months of silence this is the best James can do?
Looking for an Independent, looking for an independent......

Anonymous said...

BC has approx 55billion in future P3 contractual obligations. Glorified accounting practices and presto, your total provincial debt is much much lower on paper.

Advantage, continued political support from the public.

Oh to live in a bubble....

Anonymous said...

At this point, the NDP just has to sit back and watch Gordo and his crew self destruct.

Parzone said...

Hi Grant,


I watched Carole James in that news story also and wondered what else she might have said on the subject.

Did James do that interview for longer than those short two sentences?

Of course she did, the reporter did not ask one question, receive a two-sentence answer and walk away.

That’s been the problem for many years now… how the news is presented to the public.

IF the opposition is included in a story (which is not all that often) then we the public get one or two sentences chosen by the editors.

When the NDP have a new leader and time passes, we will be asking the same questions…….

Where is the leader of the NDP?

Doesn’t the leader of the NDP come across ineffective?

Why isn’t the leader of the opposition saying something about this?

I wish we had a stronger leader of the NDP.

The media/PAB write the scripts as we have witnessed before the landslide 2001 election and every election there after.

Not to mention the nightly brainwashing, one news story at a time.

Having said that, I feel the NDP are a BIG SLUG right now and need to find a way to communicate better.

BC Mary said...


Those are the facts, all right: the New Democrat Opposition doesn't come across in the news we're allowed to see.

God knows, the Opposition can't seem to get their messages out. We're not even sure the BC NDP has a message.

But there are clues piled upon clues, telling us that there's an agreed media tactic of ignorning news which might reflect poorly upon their chosen leader, the Gordo.

I'm not defending or promoting any political party. I think the whole notion of partisan politics is a chump's game which simply keeps citizens distracted as they squabble amongst themselves.

But it sure would be nice if the BC Media would be something more than stenographers taking their dictation from Gordo's Public Affairs Bureau. Which surely doesn't include much on-camera time for the NDP Opposition.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said... July 10, 2010 8:16 AM
At this point, the NDP just has to sit back and watch Gordo and his crew self destruct.
Sit back, thats all the NDP have been doing under James, sitting on their asses watching, additionally all drawing a nice large salary. particularly James.
Therein lies the motivation problem , if they were earning in accordance to what they have accomplished,which is little, they would have some incentive to strive ahead, but their bellies are overfull, their bank accounts swelling and a plump pension waiting.
So why rock the boat?

Henri Paul

Anonymous said...

Well, when a company can make more, or lose less, by shutting down one of their mills than they can running it, that should be a wake up call.
The wages and taxes have to leave enough for profit and shareholder value to complete the picture. Can't have a company like that trading at 14 cents a share.
When workers can't make a living they move on. When government can't make ends meet they raise taxes. When companies can't make money they shut down or move.
The unions and government would do well to ensure the mills in the other 3 Catalyst towns become a bit more viable. If they don't want the jobs and industry there seem to be countries who do.

Quibbler said...

So you advocate corporations able to pay their shareholders handsome dividends, and their CEO's obscene pay packages be allowed to walk away from paying their fair share of taxes because we might lose them to countries paying their workers 2 or 3 dollars an hour? (If that)

Perhaps it's time to stop allowing them to play both ends against the middle. We've already been socked with paying their share of HST - that's enough. Either they do business and be responsible to the municipalities they operate in, or they can move to China where all our raw logs and cants are going anyway. It's also time for us to stop that crap and put our own people to work. Enough is enough.

cherylb said...

I don't agree Henri Paul. The NDP has not been sitting back on their asses watching. They hammered the Libs for months on the HST in the House and most of the MLAs have been out there pounding the pavement for signatures. What else would you have them do before you gave them any credit for helping in this fight? They have no more power to stop these morons than we do.

Anonymous said...

cherylb said...July 11, 2010 8:35 AM
I don't agree Henri Paul.
Ive supported this (NDP) party for a long time.
But my loyalty to this spineless bunch evaporated when their fearless leader recommend gender profiling against male candidates a few years back, and what did the party do in regards to this gender profiling? They did nothing they smiled and curtsied Carol the Queen of the NDP.
If no alternate party has any hope of forming at least a good opposition in the next election, before I vote for that broad I will go with Gordon,"better the devil you know, than the one you don't know'.

Henri Paul

Crankypants said...

Let's face it, no political party will ever offer us democracy, just their version of a dictatorship. Those that espouse a form of proportional representation still solve nothing. Each party that has a member elected will be constrained to vote as their party demands or be banished to the sidelines.

It is time to choose independent candidates whenever and wherever possible. Only then can we expect to hold our representatives responsible. Only then can we demand that they do the bidding of those that brought them to power.

At present, we are nothing more than a toothless person who gets to choose which steakhouse to dine in when, in reality, he cannot enjoy any steak offered on the menu.

This is the reality that we live under and there is no incentive for those in power to change the system. That is up to us.


Leah said...

Cam...excellent analysis. I'll be looking for the independent here in Kamloops if there is one...and do whatever I can to help them attain office if they're worth of it.

Crankypants said...


The way I feel about our political system, the only qualification I am looking for in a independent candidate is that they are still breathing. Our system of governance has deteriorated to such a point that the only remedy is to blow it up and start over. That will never happen as long as the political parties and their puppeteers have a say.

If our ancestors that fought for our freedoms could have forseen what their efforts have yielded, they may have chosen another path.


Leah said...

If the ancestors that fought and died for our freedom came back today...the Campbell government would be scourged. A few of us might be as well for not paying attention to the state of our government, and acting accordingly.IMHO.

Anonymous said...

It's been said, Campbell is actually a Conservative, flying under a Liberal flag. Campbell and Harper have a very close relationship. While Campbell is busy selling, BC to China. It seems, Harper is proud to be a part of, expanding the rail yard at Ashcroft, BC, to make easier access for China, to move their junk across Canada. Any goods made in China, are so poorly made, I refuse to buy. I also will not promote child labor. I buy nothing, that has the HST applied. So far I have missed none of it. Even if Campbell falls, I would never support any of his ministers. They have been tainted by Campbell. How many BC Liberal ministers, have been under investigation now? I have lost count.

Anonymous said...

The catalyst mill in, Campbell River is being shut down. So, another mill will open in China. That lay off is, 100 workers, losing their jobs. Cheap labor, and, more cheap, child laborers win again. BC is becoming an empty shell, there is very little left. The BC Rail, was very profitable. Campbell thieved, our asset and sold the BCR, to benefit himself and his business friends. Campbell, sold our rivers out privately, to more of his friends. Campbell steals, everything he lays his hands on, selling us out to the USA and China. Campbell, also had stolen, our tax dollars to give himself, a totally undeserved 53% wage hike, and his Ministers, 29% increase, many of them are corrupt. Some of the ministers had to resign, however, Campbell is the worst criminal, but he gets to stay on, to completely destroy this province. He forces, his ugly self, on citizens who despise him, and everything he stands for. So, I agree with, voting for an Independent. The NDP, have been, mostly silent, perhaps they are sitting back, and allowing Campbell, to cut his own throat. As far as the Vancouver newspapers, I quit buying them, quite some time back. It is obvious, they are controlled by Campbell, so there is no honest journalism, so it is pointless, to buy them.

Anonymous said...

Grant said, since the HST 2 more mills have closed and now a finger joint plant is closing (No, not that type of joint, wood joints).....
Add one more to the list , a friend of mine told me a value added post and rail mill shut down last week in Princeton.

Anonymous said...

Bill says:

Henri Paul @8:35

Before I go with that Broad etc.etc.
I will go with Gordon"The devil I know"
Are you out of your Mother loving mind???
You are as mental as Campell....