About Me-email is... grant.go@aol.com

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garden bay, west coast, Canada
persistent digging,never say never

Wednesday, October 13, 2010

Carole James and the Dreamers Versus Reality


Why is it that even reasonable minds allow partisan politics to fog their thoughts and throw logic out the window.

David Shreck and Ian Reid have spoken and are clearly on Carole James side on the NDP leadership challenge, now that`s fine and I respect their opinion, but.....

What was their reasoning for defending Carole James besides a personal allegiance, David Shrek talks about the all time highs Carole James has brought to the NDP party, according to Mustel and Angus Reid the BC NDP are polling between (Currently42% and 48%)...What historic highs, the NDP garnered in the last election 42.7% of the voters, the BC Liberals got 47%....and a mere 54% of eligible voters actually cast a ballot, the most hated premier in Canada and Carole got 42% of the vote and lost, again.....

Shreck goes on to talk about the BC Liberals tearing up the HEU contract, the selling of BC Rail, the HST and the deficit lie, Shreck talks about the BC Liberal brand being tainted and that Carole is a shoe in to win, and she will be the first female elected to premier........

And Ian Reid talks about how politics have changed, Reid talks about how the ideas and the platform of the NDP from 20 years ago are not relevant today, Ian talks about the right direction to go politically.....

I respect both men so I will go easy on them.......

Mr. Shreck......The thing you talk about, the tarnished BC Liberal brand, tearing up of the HEU contract, selling BC Rail, not raising minimum wages, B.C. leading Canada in child poverty since Campbell took power.....And David, Campbell is a drunk driver, doesn`t live with his wife, adulterer, ...Gag laws, closed schools, gutted the environmental reviews, gutted freedom of information.....Campbell has had half his team under investigation for one thing or another, we have a "Mock BC Rail trial" that has cost 10s of $millions...

We have a $900 million dollar tax hit we are on the hook for and that money will be going to CN rail, forestry is on the ropes, wild salmon are in big trouble, the debt has ballooned under Campbell, ridiculous power purchase agreements that will bankrupt BC Hydro and have already cranked up rate payers bills, Ken Dobell/Patrick Kinsella along with lie after lie after lie from Gordon Campbell, Campbell has attacked the old, the disabled, the autistic, arts and culture, and on top of all this.....

The NDP record from the 90s is statistically better by far than the economic numbers under a decade of Campbell.....

More net jobs were created in the 90s, more net migration to BC in the 90s...More housing was built in the 90s...GDP was higher in the 90s...Even big business made more money in the 90s under the NDP....Just ask Will McMartin........

So Mr. Shreck, your theory, the tainted BC Liberals, all of those things were present well before the last election, Carole didn`t capitalize on it did she Mr. Shreck, ....Campbell is tainted, he stinks, a waft of corruption follows Gordon Campbell around like a shadow, your theory is flawed Mr. Shreck, Carole James had enough ammo to beat Campbell three times over but she failed, she failed to expose any scandals, she allowed propaganda about the NDPs fiscal record to linger unchallenged...
Every BC Liberal MLA spewed lies about the NDP record unchallenged, Carole allowed Gordon Campbell and public affairs bureau to define the NDP with lies, why wasn`t every ndp MLA ordered to carry around Will McMartin articles laying out the true economic record of the NDP compared to the Liberals...

Carole James has allowed the Campbell owned media to define the NDP with spin, lies and distortion, now the NDP are stuck in a time warp of false urban legend....The doom and gloom of the 90s, people leaving the province, tax and spend NDPers...When the facts don`t bear that out, the Feds cut transfer payments, interest rates were high, the NDP did a good job navigating the Asian flu......
Carole James failed to set the record straight, business will never accept the NDP, whatever the NDP would offer big business the Liberals will give more, sorry Shreck, Carole hasn`t brought anyone to the party......

And as for you Ian Reid....You make one statement in your latest article.....You talk about how politics and party platforms have changed over the last 20 years and time to move on has come, the old NDP ideaoligies aren`t relevant to today......

I respectfully disagree, in fact the needs are greater today than anytime over the last 40 years, corporations have become greedy monsters, they set up shop in slave labour countries, private pensions are now almost a thing of the past, job security and community based good corporate citizen no longer exists, the S&P companies are sitting on $2 trillion in cash, the corporate world is flush with cash, in fact Wall street among the top 13 firms are setting a new pay record, renumeration and bonuses are expected to exceed $144 billion dollars, yet trade volume is way down, banking deals are down but the corporate elite are taking more, paying less and continually outsourcing to the cheapest slave land they can find, minimum wage hasn`t been raised in 10 years in BC, .......

There has never ever been a time where a party of the people, for the people, for workers, for kids, for education, for social programs, was ever needed more than now......Corporations have become greedy pigs, the HST isn`t enough, they want municipal taxes cut or reduced, raw logs and resources leaving the Province by the boatload, 20 years of trickle down economics and look where we are, corporations flush with cash, outsourcing gone wild, Government and personal debt levels have never been higher, meanwhile corporations have trillions of dollars, even the last(still) reccession, who caused it, greedy bankers, corrupt corporations, derivatives, credit default swaps, imaginary securities and who pays the price for the scam, the big boys get bailed out on the backs of taxpayers, corporations who failed to fund promised pensions, bit by bit, dollar by dollar the quality of life is being taken by the corporate elite...

The Fraser institute, C D Howe, you hear the drum beating Shreck and Reid.... Health care is unsustainable, CPP is unsustainable, government services must be cut cut cut and cut some more, wages must be lowered, we must be more productive(Code for no benifits), more efficient, lower corporate taxes even more....

I could go on and on folks, Sorry David Shreck, Carole James has failed to communicate anything, she has had more than enough ammo, she allowed the NDP record to be turned into an urban legend lie, one that will be very difficult to undo, we will need a better more personable leader to get the truth out there and into people`s head!...

Mr. Reid...Your wrong, the old NDP policies are needed more today then ever before, just like the tea baggers down south, no more pandering to elites, to bankers, to corporate greed, we are on the cusp of North America turning into a banana republic, we have land, resources, clean air and water, we have beautiful spirited life forces in this Province, we are unique, we hold the keys....
There already is a BC Conservative party, there is already a BC Liberal party, there is a Green party, there already is a Corporation party, it`s called the present Government...

What we need is an NDP party with the values of 20 years ago where people and the long term environment come first.

Look folks, I like Carole James but in the big picture, the election of the NDP is more important than one person`s ego.

The Straight Goods

Cheers-Eyes Wide Open

26 comments:

cherylb said...

I agree with you Grant, that we need the old NDP back now more than ever. I'm not nuts about the "new" one.

Anonymous said...

Grant, I don't know where you are putting your energy. Do you just like Chaos? Really, Grant, baby steps here. Get the liberals out, Campbell has to go. That is the focus....

I suggest you give Carol a chance, you don't know what it will look like having her as the leader.

I am starting to think you are eyes-wide-shut...... focus your energy.... all we need is more voter chaos, Carole James questions, pro-hst stuff and liberal cover-ups....

NickInVictoria said...

"The Fraser institute, C D Howe" Have you ever noticed that these places are quoted as almost god like? Funny how the people in there have no real experience running a business.... yet we take direction from them

The bottom line is, we need to run this province and country like a business. Invest in R&D, give workers money to spend in BC and stop shipping work out of BC. I don't care what the party is, I just don't want to see us with so many people on the street, education out of reach, large disparity in incomes and so much poverty...

Focus your energy Grant on getting the Liberal Party out, not bashing the NDP......

Grant G said...

Excuse me?..Bash the NDP, I don`t think so, I`m very impressed with individual members, Jenny Kwan, Horgan, Herbert, Scott Fraser,Gary Coons,...

We probably can win with Carole James, but...Not if but when, the Liberals change leaders, the media launches into their proaganda slamming the NDP and Carole is pummelled, we would then be changing leaders on the Liberal`s terms...

We change leaders on our terms and soon....

If things don`t improve there is time to find another new leader....

I suggest a secret ballot, all riding associations plus each MLA votes .....

Let the chips fall where they may.

Be that as it may, better to get this over with now, if Carole James survives,I will support the team.

Cheers

Evil Eye said...

The NDP will not win the next election with Carole James. The electorate will not vote for this person and will park their vote with the greens, Zalm's mob or holding their nose. vote for the Liberals.

50% of the electorate will not vote and james is about as inspirational as a corpse.

She has had 9 years at it and it is time for her to bow out gracefully and say adieu.

As a voter who used to vote for the NDP, I will not vote for that party with James at the helm and will vote......well lucky me, I have a credible independent to vote for, as I did in the last election.

It is time the NDP get real or you will again miss the bus, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

Gary E said...

Anon 3:07

I couldn't disagree with you more. Grant is bang on. He only left out one thing. With James swing to the right that means a huge move away from the people who actually vote in this province. Moving away from the working man and towards the big money has proved disastrous in this Province. All of Grants' statements above are the proof.It's time the NDP got back to the grass roots. The working man. And while they are at it they better get a little more democratic than what we have witnessed recently.

Anonymous said...

absolutley dead on grant! and she can take moe sakota with her please.

Anonymous said...

100% agreement with your take on things Grant...and to those who want us to go easy on her, give her a free ride...wake the hell up! The libs love her, they want her to stay...they can't get enough of her right now...why? Because she's so beatable, they've proven it - and they will again.

Carole, where the hell is your head? and your heart?

Rod Smelser said...

What I don't understand is this. How is it so wrong for Carole James to speak to a business audience .... and yet the solution is to replace here with a multi-millionaire businessman, and get rid of Moe Sihota because he's involved in business?


Perhaps Bill Tieleman can explain how this game works.


It's pretty obvious that people in the NDP who are calling for James to quit aren't afraid she's going to lose in 2013, ... they're terrified she's going to win. And once in office, decline to spin the wheel of fortune for the boys.

Anonymous said...

Well Carole James, has Campbell cheering her, for dumping Simpson. I find that amusing. Campbell certainly, has never praised James before. Just another Campbell, dirty tactic. I think it was a bad call to, kick Simpson out of caucus. That seems to be dividing the party. There is a, choosing up of sides going on. Of course, Campbell holds his caucus together, by threat. Anyone opposing Campbell and Hansen, loses their job. We have seen that more than once. Campbell is forcing himself on the BC people, who despise him and everything he stands for. Any leader who would lie, deceive and cheat to win, has disgusted the BC population. Campbell, Hansen and the phony BC Liberals, are the worst, and the most corrupt government, in the history of Canada...They are also the worst politicians. It is said, Campbell is no Liberal, he works for Harper, another snake in the grass. The BC people, will remember that, next Federal Election. There are now, many citizens looking to the, BC First Party. Campbell has destroyed the BC Liberal party. Conservatives are out. They back the HST, and Harper,is remembered for, stabbing the BC people in the back, and colluding with Campbell and Hansen, regarding the HST. Canada has produced, the worst crop of politicians ever. Corruption, greed and big business, are what governs.

cherylb said...

Please tell me how Rod, a party that sends out non-stop letters begging all its senior members to "dig deeper" for donations squares with holding a $300 dollar a plate "big business" dinner. I could never afford a ticket like that; neither could nearly everyone I know.

I've worked in provincial office during a campaign and seen all the envelopes coming in with the $5 and $10 bills stuffed in them, with notes of apology that it couldn't be more. I think it's disgusting if it's true that we're paying Moe Sihota a $72,000 salary out of those funds. He's a big part of the reason we're still struggling to reclaim any legitimacy we had.

I've supported Carole as leader since the beginning, albeit reluctantly since it became obvious she wasn't ever going to win, but I don't like the direction we're going in at all. We've forgotten who we are and who we represent. I can see courting small and medium-sized business, as they mostly want the same things that we all do, but big business has no place at our table. They never have, and never will support us. It's a waste of time, and a betrayal to all those old CCFers. JS Woodsworth, Tommy, David and Ed would never be caught trying that stunt.

I also resent your implication that I don't want Carole to win the next election. Seems the "wheel of fortune" is already spinning for at least one of those boys, doesn't it?

Rod Smelser said...

cherylb

Seems the "wheel of fortune" is already spinning for at least one of those boys, doesn't it?
===============================

I don't for one minute believe the $72K figure, and I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe any one else does either. It's totally incredible.


But it's pecuniary considerations like that which lie behind this entire affair. Someone got a job, someone else didn't, and the latter is bloody furious and it shows.


I am a treasurer for our federal riding association. I have opened envelopes to see cheques with notes from pensioners saying they wish it could be more. We have provincial campaign debts in the thousands and tens of thousands at the local level, in some cases to people in their seventies, which need to be paid.


I am not the one saying we should instead go on a flyer and blow that and hundreds of thousands even millions more on a silly-bugger leadership convention at some CondeNast FiveStar hotel, where the party worthies from Point Grey, Kits, and EastVan can preen their feathers and tell the average slobs in the party just how much they're looking forward to serving in a senior capacity in the next NDP government.


I have seen that movie before cheryl. I don't need to see it again, thanks.

Grant G said...

@Rod Smelser...Mr. Smelser, I usually respect your views, however....

Carole James`s speech at the last convention was a shocker, a speech written by Moe Sihota...A speech that shocked the party faithful...

A unannounced change of direction, a dictorial approach by Moe and Carole....

Rod, if you believe the establishment, big business, corporate Canada will ever support the NDP you are delusional, big business already has free rule in this province...

That means that Carole James`s last year of campaigning has been wasted,for nothing.....

And as for a chippy business dinner, that`s nothing but a tax write off for them, a chance to laugh at Carole, and they did!....

If the NDP can`t draw in the working middleclass, labour, families we are finished...

The way to win, field your best candidate, Moe Sihota is unwanted luggage...

Rod, you have failed to read the public...

Right now, the public doesn`t want to hear from banks, corporations, industry, the public doesn`t want to hear from predicting economists, the public wants to hear a party say ....

Enough is enough, raise wages and cut taxes, make the corporations pay....

That is what the public wants to hear.....

And if it isn`t the NDP who says it someone else will and it will be game over.

There is no centrist government in BC...It`s left or right politics...

Time for the left for a term or two....

Sheesh, no wonder the NDP are in trouble, bad advice within ranks!....

Rod Smelser said...

===>>> Grant

Let me just repeat what I said earlier. I am a federal riding treasurer. I actually open envelopes that contain cheques accompanied by notes from elderly people saying they would like to give more, but can't.

Provincial riding associations have campaign debts. And in some instances at least those debts are to other elderly people. Provincial ridings are required to pay off those debts using 50 cent dollars. Unlike federal ridings, for which I am a treasurer, they get to keep ONLY HALF of what they raise. So a $20 thousand dollar debt immediately becomes a $40 thousand dollar obligation, even before interest payments are considered.

People who are now eager to blow well over a million or two on a leadership convention are simply squandering scarce resources in the hope that somehow, some way, this reckless cash burn will lead to a sexy streak of easy money and a magical rise in the party's poll standings.

I have heard it all before and I'm not buying it.

If Carole James does decide to step down as leader I hope we will not have a delegated leadership convention, but rather a genuine, one member, one vote leadership selection process that includes a postal ballot of every last single member of the party.

I think it goes without saying that you, like Bill Tieleman, would be unalterably opposed to an OMOV approach, just as both of you would be completely opposed to an NDP Govt amending the provincial elections statutes to mirror the requirements in the federal statutes, where only individuals can contribute, not corporations or unions.

Grant G said...

Rod....

You seem to be(by design)confusing the issues and adding straw men to the discussion...

The story, the problem has nothing to do with Federal election rules...

The cost of a convention is irrelevant, there already is a scheduled convention for a year from now.....

Who donates what money to the party isn`t the issue, Carole can step down on her own, or be voted out at the NEXT SCHEDULED CONVENTION.

No one has called for a second earlier convention, there are mechanisms for a cheap leadership vote, there is also the ability for a leader who can see the writing on the wall and do the right thing and save the party money and time.

@Rod...Don`t spin the strawmen here.

Thanks

Rod Smelser said...

A leadership convention will be an expensive affair, both to the candidates and their supporters and to the party, a million or two minimum.


The convention next year has a routine vote on whether or not to hold such a convention. If the vote is yes, another convention would be required.

Anonymous said...

"we need the old NDP back now more than ever"

We can't go back in time - the game has changed. We can however reinvent the current NDP, clean house, and adopt real social policy in the current context.

Anonymous said...

Change comes from the bottom up NOT the top down. The vast majority of people on BC blogs and those I talk to on the street are of the opinion that Carol James should step down.

Within the NDP party it's almost like the story of the King with the invisible clothing.
Everyone knows whats wrong but don't have the balls to drag it out into the open.

Mr. Simpson was the first to say that the Carol indeed had no cloths.
The NDP needs an extreme shakeup and its going to happen whether those at the top of the party food chain like it or not.

The unwashed have and will rise. Ignore them at your peril Carol and MO.

CGHZD

Evil Eye said...

The NDP are still the same old self absorbed political party, which will rather loose the next provincial election instead of reinventing itself.

There is a great need for a thoroughly modern NDP, not a 19th century throw-back.

cherylb said...

@ Rod - and if the $72,000 story turns out to be true?

Do you think it's right for that to be happening, especially at a time when we are struggling to get out of debt and one poor woman at PO is left to try and run it all on her own because of a hiring freeze?

I don't.

Rod Smelser said...

cherylb


I should say, belatedly, that it's always a bit of rotten game discussing anything with anonymous or fake name bloggers, who claim to be real people, but who refuse to identify themselves, then claim to possess special, insider information, etc., etc.


You ask, "and if the $72,000 story turns out to be true?" Yet you claim to be a former provincial office employee and to still be in touch enough to know that one single woman is the entire BC NDP bureaucracy now, ... and yet you cannot personally say if it's true or false.


To any reasonable person at least some part of your story doesn't even come close to adding up.

Grant G said...

Mr. Smelser...You have no idea who you are talking to......

She is not only real and passionate....She was the head person responsible for the anti-HST petition....

Not Zalm, Not Tielman,not Delaney, not I......

Cherylb got it all going,

You Smelser need to withdraw...

You certainly know how Luke Skywalker played the game with you, attack the messenger and avoid the message, you are doing the same thing Rod as was done to you....

That is no class.......

You have seen the polls, the large majority of BCers have zero faith or favourable position on Carole James....

So to come here and make personal attacks and throw strawmen into the argument when the issue is NDP leadership.....

And as for attacking Tieleman and I....

Carole election team has lost, lost twice, lost badly, Bill Tieleman`s team managed to campaign their way into the big chair,twice!

I`ll take advice, listen to, learn from success...

The Federal NDP has won what? Carole`s team has won what?

Walk the walk before you talk the talk!

Anonymous said...

Grant, I just found this poll posted at another site:

Which of the following political leaders and parties associated with each, do you support most in terms of how much you like them and would support them?

Surrey mayor Dianne Watts and B.C. Conservatives 47 %
B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell and B.C. Liberals 24 %
Carole James and B.C. New Democrats 17 %
Jane Sterk and B.C. Greens 03 %

You might not know but the Mayor of Surrey is called Diane Watts. Don't the party brass read all of the polls? Or do they surround our leader and protect her at all costs?

I mean my god, even Scambell is ranked higher than Carole ion this poll. Do we have a death wish? I just don't understand the thinking at party HQ.

It's time for a change at the top!

cherylb said...

I'm sorry Rod. You said, "I don't for one minute believe the $72K figure, and I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe any one else does either. It's totally incredible." I just meant to ask you if in fact, it did turn out to be true would you still feel the same way?

I never claimed to be a former provincial office employee. If you read my post I said I worked in provincial office during a campaign. My job was to open the mail, put together the bank deposit, and because it was the old days, package and ship election materials to all the ridings by bus. That was when we still provided campaigns with materials.

And all the New Democrats know there is a current hiring freeze. That's no secret. In fact, Sean Holman yesterday posted minutes of a provincial executive meeting attesting to that very fact.

I just wanted to know how a party that is constantly begging for funds from members who can hardly afford to always be sending more can also be courting big business and holding $300 dollar a plate dinners. It seems totally contradictory to me. I also wanted to know if you agreed with paying the party president $72,000 for what is normally a non-paying position, if in fact, it turns out to be true.

Anything else that you accuse me of advocating for is simply not true, as you will see if you re-read the posts.

istvan said...

what pole?

Anonymous said...

There are none so blind, that will not see. The Constitution has been, perhaps whited out? Our Civil Rights and Liberties, have been taken away from the BC people. Democracy and Freedom, can't be found in BC. BC is the most corrupt province in Canada. Campbell, Hansen and the BC Liberals, are the worst governing officials, ever known in BC. If Campbell is out of office, we will still have to contend with, one of the Liberal Ministers, taking Campbell's place? How will that make the BC people any better off? Let the NDP get their ducks in a row. I agree, we should be focusing, on getting the BC Liberals thrown out. That has to be the first step.